The Debate about Dreamwidth in Media Fandom Continues

[charmian]

So now people are talking more about Dreamwidth in critical terms (at first there was mostly Dreamwidth boosting). I think in some ways, the critics do have a point in that while DW does have a lot of great features planned, right now DW is a rough draft, and in some ways it is better to get people to try and move into the condo when they're done with the elevators and the pool and the gym.

Disarm_d has issues with the DW price. As I was never a paid user on LJ, I personally don't care much about the price. I don't care about icons either. However, I don't think it's really fair to compare LJ's current price with DW's starting price, especially when the 19.99 price is only if you have automatic renewal on, and DW isn't taking advertising. Also... how can you 'lose' members of your flist when you can import their feeds into LJ anyhow? On the other hand, I use more than one site so I don't really get the angst.

Viciouswishes is cynical about DW and fandom. I wonder what they even mean by 'don't believe in fandom the way you do.' Probably I am not a fandom believer anyway, whatever that means. I think Jennyo and Viciouswishes come up with the good point that DW really needs to integrate, somewhere down the line, more web 2.0 technologies, such as messaging. Making dumb quizzes, though, is not such a bad idea (since people seem to really enjoy these dumb quizzes). Basically rather than a siege mentality against Myspace and Facebook, where everything done there is denigrated and dismissed, like there was on the LJ suggestions comm a lot of the time, I prefer an attitude that acknowledges that successful social networks and blogging services have a lot to teach.

I think at this current stage, DW has a lot of features that are either geared towards interoperability with LJ (and not non-LJ yet) or improving things that annoyed some LJ users (though not all of them, or perhaps, not even a majority). Of course, DW is a rough draft, really, at this stage, so I think Viciouswishes is completely correct when she says 'call me in September.'

Randomly, actually, you know what I would like? A site scheme that has a white background. I find it easier to read than grey. Maybe I'm in the minority here.

Comments

[torachan]

I prefer a white background, but I don't mind the very light grey they have going in the tropo red (which is what I'm using). As long as it's not a dark color (omg white on black makes my vision swim after just seconds).

I do sympathise with the losing people thing, because a feed is never going to be the same. It doesn't show locked posts and doesn't show comment count, both of which are essential to me.

[charmian]

I don't really mind it, but I would just prefer a white one. Right now I'm using Tropo Purple because I like purple. I'd like it if they were to have a tropo one that were white.

The odd thing is, in RSS you CAN show comment count; I know because in my RSS reader (Sage) there are some feeds which do it. Not sure how this is done or whether this would be feasible either on LJ or using an LJ-fork, though. Also, if you use an RSS reader, you can read locked feeds either on LJ or DW. It's not an insanely difficult thing.

Hopefuly DW creates some features that are really 'sticky' and that you can't get on LJ, so it encourages more new people to come on in.

[torachan]

Yeah, I have seen some with comment counts, too. I think only some non-web-based readers show locked posts, though? Last I heard, you couldn't do it in google reader (which is what I use), and I know you can't do it on LJ feeds (which is what I imagine most people would want to use).

[charmian]

I don't know whether you can do it using google reader (IIRC, you might be able to now), but there were other web-based readers like newsgator where you could do it.

Yeah, you can't, but that's a problem on LJ's side that DW can't affect anyhow.

[morineko]

Celerity is live now as a site scheme and it has white background. I'm using it right now.

[charmian]

Oh, cool. It is a lot lighter than Tropo. Though I prefer the top navigation.

[bell]

Dunno if you saw this, but Riko (on lj) is worried about DW's ToS.

[charmian]

Eh, IANAL so I have no comment on it? Also, I had always mentally thought that the situation Riko is worried about already was the case.

[bell]

I linked you to it because you seem to be looking for opinions on DW, and I hadn't seen this one before. :) IANAL either, and to me it sounds all rather similar? I'll be interested to see if/how DW does change the wording, and what Riko/other lawyer-types make of it.

[morineko]

viciouswishes has one of the best DW critiques I've seen, because almost everything she's said is something I've thought myself. I've told almost everyone I know about DW but I've also said "it's still in beta; it's a great idea, but it's not finished yet."

As for the "I don't believe in fandom" thing, is it perhaps the view of media fandom as the Best Thing in the World With No Problems Ever that she has issues with?

But, arrrrgh, the comments over there. Like it's so effing hard to read sites other than LJ. I think they would see my Google Reader subscriptions (usually around 150) and just keel over. Also, people are still not getting that DW isn't JournalFen the Second. I don't know how to get it into Fandom's head that THIS IS NOT FOR FANS ONLY.

[charmian]

Yep. I do think a lot of the fandom hype is kind of OTT. It is indeed still in beta, and a lot of the better features they have planned are way down the road. I don't know from a business perspective whether it is good or bad to have this much hype going when there are still so many problems with the service, or things that are currently just plans. That's why I think in my LJ, I think I'm not trying to 'promote' DW, just talk about what I find interesting about it. I think the hard-sell tactics some DW fans have used have provoked a backlash. Which is not to say that they do not have a right to employ them or express their opinions about either DW or LJ, or that these tactics were always employed with the intentions, even, of being a hard-sell tactic, but a backlash it has provoked, especially because DW is still in closed beta.

I KNOW. Do these people use ANY other sites? BTW, can you read locked journals on Google Reader? I can't recall because I don't use it.

[morineko]

I think it's probably very bad for business, but it's not DW's management or volunteers that are doing most of the fandom hype. And of course, they can't tell the users to tone it down a little for fear that they'll be scaring off the potential paying customers. (I'm sure not paying for DW until it leaves beta.)

I don't think you can read locked posts (of any variety, even password-protected WP posts) on Google Reader. I admit I haven't tried very hard to figure it out, though.

[charmian]

Haha, once again, the 'it's not the people themselves, but their rabid defenders' thing? Yeah, and since it's not like it's happening on official comms on DW, they really can't do much.