Intense Debate and Google+OpenID
Tuesday, March 23rd, 2010 12:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
charmianI just installed Intense Debate, which is like Disqus, only it's owned by Automattic and thus integrates even better with self-hosted Wordpress. So far, I'm liking it, especially because I can install Facebook Connect and Twitter login without having to install separate plugins. Since my blog receives a lot of search engine traffic, it makes a lot of sense to me to have FB connect and Twitter login as commenting options, I feel. The blog also receives quite a bit of traffic from LJ (although I'm not sure how much is really from LJ users, as there's like an index post which happens to be hosted on LJ which links my blog), so ideally I would like to have an "LJ login button" (the actual mechanism would be openID) too) But anyway, with the Wordpress.com button already being there, maybe it's already too 'Nascar-ized.' If no one uses the Twitter option after a few months, I may remove it.
Twitter login didn't require any additional customization, but to install the FB connect, I needed to go to Facebook, make an application, and enter in the API key to Intense Debate, as well as some URLs to FB itself, but this only took a few minutes, and now it appears to work. I had no idea it would be so easy to implement FB Connect, from the user perspective.
Anyhow, while writing a post to users about how openID could be used to allow them to use their LJ identities to comment, I also wondered, what about Gmail? What would you need to type in for using openID with Google/gmail? I actually couldn't figure it out off of the top of my head.
Certain web pages told me that I should enter in https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id. I tried that, and well, this is the result. This is not very helpful at all, especially because once you click on it, it doesn't even lead to anywhere.
I saw also that http://google.com/profile/###### (####=your profile name) will also work. That worked rather better. It provides an intelligible URL which actually leads someplace, to a page with information on it.
However, the only reason why my url is something intelligible is because I specifically set it that way. By default, IIRC, the google profile isn't a word, but a string of numbers! (to see what yours is, go to http://google.com/profile/me when you are logged into google) So unless users have previously changed their profile to be something memorable, it's not very helpful.
IIRC, there IS a more sophisticated version of Google login called Google Federated Login, which I think is based on a mix of openID and Oauth, but I didn't really get it when I looked at the documentation. There are some claims that Google has 'stabbed openID in the back' by not implementing a standard openID. It seems Google is encouraging people to allow users to enter in their Gmail address, something which is rather confusing if you are used to entering in an URL, as an email address is not an URL.
It appears that Google's real desire is to have people in general use email addresses as logins, as seen in their usability studies.
This blog claims that Google and Yahoo have adopted differing approaches to Federated Login, with Google pushing email login (backed by openID and OAuth behind the scenes) and Yahoo researching the usability of openID.
However, as the blogger notes, the end result of Yahoo's best practices recommendations (quoting from their recommendations):
is Nascar-ization. Promoting 'openID' leads to user confusion. Promoting 'existing accounts' is clearer, but leads to having fifty different badges (Nascarization). As the blogger says: "it’s always been clear that the average user is not going to understand the idea of logging in with a URL. Plus, they’re damned unwieldy (i.e. big and hard to remember). So, their conclusion was one that doesn’t scale well: use per-IdP buttons.")
Twitter login didn't require any additional customization, but to install the FB connect, I needed to go to Facebook, make an application, and enter in the API key to Intense Debate, as well as some URLs to FB itself, but this only took a few minutes, and now it appears to work. I had no idea it would be so easy to implement FB Connect, from the user perspective.
Anyhow, while writing a post to users about how openID could be used to allow them to use their LJ identities to comment, I also wondered, what about Gmail? What would you need to type in for using openID with Google/gmail? I actually couldn't figure it out off of the top of my head.
Poll #2530 openID w/ google
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 29
Do you know what to enter in the URL box to use your Gmail/Google account as an OpenID? (off the top of your head; don't use Google to find out the answer)
Certain web pages told me that I should enter in https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id. I tried that, and well, this is the result. This is not very helpful at all, especially because once you click on it, it doesn't even lead to anywhere.
I saw also that http://google.com/profile/###### (####=your profile name) will also work. That worked rather better. It provides an intelligible URL which actually leads someplace, to a page with information on it.
However, the only reason why my url is something intelligible is because I specifically set it that way. By default, IIRC, the google profile isn't a word, but a string of numbers! (to see what yours is, go to http://google.com/profile/me when you are logged into google) So unless users have previously changed their profile to be something memorable, it's not very helpful.
IIRC, there IS a more sophisticated version of Google login called Google Federated Login, which I think is based on a mix of openID and Oauth, but I didn't really get it when I looked at the documentation. There are some claims that Google has 'stabbed openID in the back' by not implementing a standard openID. It seems Google is encouraging people to allow users to enter in their Gmail address, something which is rather confusing if you are used to entering in an URL, as an email address is not an URL.
It appears that Google's real desire is to have people in general use email addresses as logins, as seen in their usability studies.
This blog claims that Google and Yahoo have adopted differing approaches to Federated Login, with Google pushing email login (backed by openID and OAuth behind the scenes) and Yahoo researching the usability of openID.
However, as the blogger notes, the end result of Yahoo's best practices recommendations (quoting from their recommendations):
* Promote the utility, not the technology. To reach the majority of users who aren't familiar with OpenID as a technology, promote the ability to log in using an existing account, not "OpenID" itself.
* Yahoo! users respond well when informed that they can login to a new site using their Yahoo! Account. Displaying a Yahoo! Sign-in Button is an effective way to reach out to potential new users who already have a Yahoo! ID.
is Nascar-ization. Promoting 'openID' leads to user confusion. Promoting 'existing accounts' is clearer, but leads to having fifty different badges (Nascarization). As the blogger says: "it’s always been clear that the average user is not going to understand the idea of logging in with a URL. Plus, they’re damned unwieldy (i.e. big and hard to remember). So, their conclusion was one that doesn’t scale well: use per-IdP buttons.")
no subject
Date: 2010-03-24 12:41 am (UTC)And, um, I ticked the wrong button; I thought it was just Google.Com, but it's Yahoo that does that, oops; want me to change my vote?
no subject
Date: 2010-03-24 12:58 am (UTC)Personally, I think "Nascar" actually works pretty well, if most of your users only use a small amount of ID providers (whether FB connect or OpenID). As long as there is the text URL enter option somewhere, even if it's off to the side, I don't think such users of small ID providers are harmed by having the buttons there. From what I see, the "Nascar buttons" are like a solution for the unuser-friendliness of the bare openID URL box, which did make things easier, but introduced a different problem. And it seems that the openID folk are trying to solve it, but it involves the browser or something, and anyway, the solution doesn't exist yet.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-24 12:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-24 01:13 am (UTC)For me the real distinguishing point is the Wordpress comment importation, and ability to turn it off and return things to normal easily, as well as accessbility to non-Javascript users.