so what if Saiunkoku were a huge fandom?
Saturday, May 9th, 2009 07:53 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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Am still rereading the Saiunkoku book in preparation for summarizing it. Senka still enrages me. I feel kind of like the narrative gives him brownie points for something a parent ought to be doing anyway. (Though this is mostly just a feeling). IIRC, more stuff is added about the crown prince. This makes me think we'll eventually get either a gaiden about the succession crisis, or it'll come up in the main narrative.
On the second story, which I'm about halfway through now, I feel it's a bit too long, and that the author really should have written it before, and not put it in now, when we have all of this big suspenseful plot hanging over our heads. I also think that Saiunkoku has gotten much crueler as a story. If it had a big fandom, I honestly wonder what people would make of the increasing grimness.
If Saiunkoku were a big fandom with lots of people discussing the series and writing fanfic? Well, even if the novels were translated, it would be doubtful (shoujo with actual romantic plot elements are a fanfic-fandom inhibitor. I suspect that a female protagonist is also an inhibitor)
Well, the first huuuuge wank topic is debates over feminism. I don't know if I would make the claim that Saiunkoku is feminist, but issues which are obviously feminist are a big part of the plot. The plot of Saiunkoku really starts when the heroine rejects being empress in order to pursue her dream as an official.
The series does actually dare to ask the question of: instead of Shuurei giving up her dream, why doesn't Ryuuki give up being king? As Ruka says, that way he can be relieved of the burden of rulership and be with Shuurei. And besides, Ryuuki was being king only for Shuurei's sake, at the beginning.
Then, there are all the people who ship Shuurei with someone else other than Ryuuki, such as Seiga or Ensei. (I think Ensei/Shuurei would work in an abstract sense, though?)
I guess there could also be wank about Shuuei/Kouyuu vs. Shuuei/Shusui. (Well, in canon it's more like Shuuei-->Shusui, though) I....I have to come out here and admit that I do want Shuuei/Shusui to happen in canon, though. >_> /prepares for death at the hands of fangirls.
In a way, it's mistaken to call Saiunkoku a gyaku-harem show, because there are so many pairings in it that don't involve Shuurei, IMHO. However this is mostly apparent after you get out of the first arc.
I am sure that there would be more pairing wank. Unlike HP, most of the characters are totally of age, and in fact, a lot of the more interesting ones are in their thirties.
In a series where there are so many characters, and the main cast rotates out every arc, I can bet we might get a lot of people irritated that their favorite character has been offstage for books and books. The anime series makes it seem like the main cast is Shuurei, Ryuuki, Seiran, Kouyuu, and Shuuei. In the novels, Shuurei is the only character who is there 100% of the time in the main arcs, and is absent for much of the gaidens. (I would even argue in terms of the larger series, Shouka is the third most important character after Shuurei and Ryuuki, and in some ways, Reishin is more important than Shuuei, and arguably even Kouyuu)
There can also be tons of debate over Senka's morality (or lack thereof, really), and whether the "ends justify the means," and how everyone seems to be forgetting the age of bloodshed and atrocity.
Then, people can debate Ou Ki and his character, which is honestly, on a personal level better than Senka (but then it would be really hard to be worse...) Actually, in a really big fandom there would be some people seriously defending Ou Ki's plot to overthrow Ryuuki.
Am still rereading the Saiunkoku book in preparation for summarizing it. Senka still enrages me. I feel kind of like the narrative gives him brownie points for something a parent ought to be doing anyway. (Though this is mostly just a feeling). IIRC, more stuff is added about the crown prince. This makes me think we'll eventually get either a gaiden about the succession crisis, or it'll come up in the main narrative.
On the second story, which I'm about halfway through now, I feel it's a bit too long, and that the author really should have written it before, and not put it in now, when we have all of this big suspenseful plot hanging over our heads. I also think that Saiunkoku has gotten much crueler as a story. If it had a big fandom, I honestly wonder what people would make of the increasing grimness.
If Saiunkoku were a big fandom with lots of people discussing the series and writing fanfic? Well, even if the novels were translated, it would be doubtful (shoujo with actual romantic plot elements are a fanfic-fandom inhibitor. I suspect that a female protagonist is also an inhibitor)
Well, the first huuuuge wank topic is debates over feminism. I don't know if I would make the claim that Saiunkoku is feminist, but issues which are obviously feminist are a big part of the plot. The plot of Saiunkoku really starts when the heroine rejects being empress in order to pursue her dream as an official.
The series does actually dare to ask the question of: instead of Shuurei giving up her dream, why doesn't Ryuuki give up being king? As Ruka says, that way he can be relieved of the burden of rulership and be with Shuurei. And besides, Ryuuki was being king only for Shuurei's sake, at the beginning.
Then, there are all the people who ship Shuurei with someone else other than Ryuuki, such as Seiga or Ensei. (I think Ensei/Shuurei would work in an abstract sense, though?)
I guess there could also be wank about Shuuei/Kouyuu vs. Shuuei/Shusui. (Well, in canon it's more like Shuuei-->Shusui, though) I....I have to come out here and admit that I do want Shuuei/Shusui to happen in canon, though. >_> /prepares for death at the hands of fangirls.
In a way, it's mistaken to call Saiunkoku a gyaku-harem show, because there are so many pairings in it that don't involve Shuurei, IMHO. However this is mostly apparent after you get out of the first arc.
I am sure that there would be more pairing wank. Unlike HP, most of the characters are totally of age, and in fact, a lot of the more interesting ones are in their thirties.
In a series where there are so many characters, and the main cast rotates out every arc, I can bet we might get a lot of people irritated that their favorite character has been offstage for books and books. The anime series makes it seem like the main cast is Shuurei, Ryuuki, Seiran, Kouyuu, and Shuuei. In the novels, Shuurei is the only character who is there 100% of the time in the main arcs, and is absent for much of the gaidens. (I would even argue in terms of the larger series, Shouka is the third most important character after Shuurei and Ryuuki, and in some ways, Reishin is more important than Shuuei, and arguably even Kouyuu)
There can also be tons of debate over Senka's morality (or lack thereof, really), and whether the "ends justify the means," and how everyone seems to be forgetting the age of bloodshed and atrocity.
Then, people can debate Ou Ki and his character, which is honestly, on a personal level better than Senka (but then it would be really hard to be worse...) Actually, in a really big fandom there would be some people seriously defending Ou Ki's plot to overthrow Ryuuki.
no subject
Date: 2009-05-09 03:44 pm (UTC)Me, too. She'll be good for him :)
"Then, there are all the people who ship Shuurei with someone else other than Ryuuki"
I remember reading a ship essay of Shuurei/Seiran - which pointed out a lot of valid hints like he got her pink roses and such.
Lots of food for thoughts here.
no subject
Date: 2009-05-09 06:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-05-09 10:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-05-16 03:10 am (UTC)Of course, I don't really have problems with any pairings, though admittedly the ones that are Shuurei/someonenotRyuuki make me sad. Although the rise of Shuurei/Ensei lately has made me hesitate, because I adore Ensei, but . . . but!
::is rather strange, yes:: The ones I don't like I just avoid, I have no idea why people feel compelled to start wank. There's room for everyone, surely?
no subject
Date: 2009-05-16 03:15 am (UTC)Oh, there really has been a rise in it in English fandom? I haven't seen anyone shipping it except for this one person I know.
Well, so far there hasn't been much wank, IIRC.
no subject
Date: 2009-05-09 10:45 pm (UTC)Honestly, at this point I'd say that, as irritating as I find Seiga, the books get a lot more fanservicey (to the point of dubious taste) with Shuurei and Seiga nowadays.
no subject
Date: 2009-05-09 08:08 pm (UTC)Agreed! Shusui would do Shuuei very good; and I can't see why the poor woman has to make a sacrifice of herself because she can't have Shouka. I wish she'd grow out of fangirling over Shouka, for her "love" appears as nothing else to me, and decide to groom Shuuei into a partner fitting for her. *gets shot*
no subject
Date: 2009-05-09 10:42 pm (UTC)Hey, don't worry, I won't shoot you for that. XD
no subject
Date: 2009-05-09 10:22 pm (UTC)I'm on the Shuuei/Kouyuu side of the fence, personally.
no subject
Date: 2009-05-09 10:40 pm (UTC)Y! Well, before Ryuuki declared his determination, I would have said "well, since Ryuuki doesn't want to be king anyway, it's too bad he can't quit because there's no one else who can be king; if he can, he should just quit and let someone else be king, so that he can do what he really wants to do with his life." But now that Ryuuki HAS declared his intention to become king, it makes things harder. (This question is sort of dealt with in the artbook story: which I still need to summarize or hell, even translate...)
Yeah, honestly, Ou Ki seems like a fairly decent guy.
Eh? It's never really been a problem that one region of the country rules over another. The Shi clan territory is Shi Province, anyway. Regionalism isn't really something that has been defined as a problem in the Saiunkoku world... (Which is fairly unrealistic, but then we're dealing with a world where apparently there are no neighboring countries)
Well, no one can replace the Shi Clan due to Mystical Rules. However, one gets the impression that the Hyou clan has the authority to elevate Shi clan relations (including those within the Hyou clan) to proper Shi clan members.
This is actually all explained in the latest short story. XD Okay, basically the Hyou clan is the one responsible for the hundred year or so period of chaos preceding Senka's rule. Which they caused by stealing Bara-hime's powers, to make themselves even more mystically superpowered.
As for why they are the villains now: because well... they're attempting to overthrow Ryuuki? You can't really get much more antagonistical than conspiring to assassinate the king? Also it's kind of bad to not warn the populace of a disease that you know is coming, but instead start up a murderous cult to conspire against the state. Also attempting to kidnap the heroine, and brainwashing people or casting spells that put them in a coma are typically not activities which cause the reader to approve of a group of people. XD
Or do you refer to their motivations? Riou (older Riou) is motivated simply by his desire to capture Bara-hime and Shuurei. Ruka wants... it's not entirely clear what motivates her. She was apparently Senka's real nemesis, and quite similar to him in some aspects. It appears, IMHO, that Ruka has some kind of twisted, though grand, scheme.
no subject
Date: 2009-05-16 05:40 am (UTC)Not that I know anything about what's going on in Saiunkoku anymore, but I'd have assumed Ryuuki abdicating was not an option because Shuurei wanted him to be (a good) king. You know?
Is there some mystical aspect about him having to be king, rather than someone randomly appointed?
I want to know what your grievances with Senka are! :D
Er, as far as Shuurei-shipping went, at the poing I left off I thought it would be very neat (as in convenient) (but also rather cute) if she and Kouyou were paired off together. ^^;;
no subject
Date: 2009-05-16 07:33 am (UTC)There is some mystical aspect about someone from the Shi clan or related to the Shi clan (Ou Ki, for example, would be a suitable candidate) as king, but Ryuuki himself doesn't HAVE to be king.
Welllll to start with, his non-parenting? "I know all about my children, actually, even though I never interact with them or bother to talk to them, which means that I ignore their mental problems and let their mothers physically or emotionally abuse them!" His threatening to kill Reishin and Kurou and Shouka when they were little kids. Killing off Yuushun's entire family. I think there are more, but I'll stop there.
It would have been interesting if they had gone in that direction, IMHO.
no subject
Date: 2009-05-16 07:48 am (UTC)Well, it's more important whether he'd realize it, isn't it? And he started acting properly kingly, even though he didn't really care to, mostly because of her in the first place, even if he bought into it later on....
(She's still going to die young, isn't she?)
... huh, I'd had no idea who Senka was. ^^;; For some reason I'd confused him with Shouka, and I was like "well maybe (definitely) he should have told his daughter that she was HEIR TO THE CLAN or whatever, but what has been revealed lately?"
I still don't get the mystical aspects of this world. Are these ppl immortal unless they're killed or die of some illness? I suppose that might be why they don't give a shit about their kids.
Have they completely cockblocked that option? XD
no subject
Date: 2009-05-16 07:52 am (UTC)(That's what was revealed in vol 14)
Senka=Ryuuki and Seiran's father. XD
The only people who are immortals are the Immortals. But on the other hand er.... wait, if it weren't for being killed or dying of illness, how else would normal humans die anyway? XD If we count stuff like heart disease etc as illness.
I don't know if they've blocked it, it's more that no one shows any real interest in it.